CRYONICS FRIENDLY COUNTRIES?

Since CI, Alcor and Suspended Animation have been facing legal problems of one kind or another from governing authorities, there's been some speculation on Cryonet about other countries that might be more cryonics friendly.

From James Hughes, MD

After noting the terrible and, yes stupid, controversy about a cryogenic

physical plant, in either Russia or the US, it occurred to me that there is a

stable, libertarian government entrenched in the Dominican Republic. The area has enjoyed increasing stability lately with a boon in tourism and expats from Europe and the US. It is a "handsoff" government. The country is easily accessible from both Europe and the US and geologically stable. This may be a plausible location to consider.

From David Stodolsky:

"Randy"wrote:

I personally think that exploring how it might be possible to lobby in Russia would be a good idea. I also suspect that some countries like Japan and Korea would be amenable here.

If cryonicists could just get 35 countries to firmly legalize cryonics, this would be a big step forward.

I am thinking that if any country would be able to legalize cryonics,it would be one of the northwestern European countries, such as Switzerland, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, etc. they seem to have a more pragmatic, nonreligious approach to life. For example, polls show that far fewer citizens of those countries have a belief in a god or afterlife (I think the figure there is maybe 3040% or so, as opposed to 6070% here in the USA).

These figures can be misleading. For example, even though belief in god is low in Denmark, as is church attendance, about 90% belong to the State Church. From a social psychological standpoint, this indicates such a deep integration of religion into daily life, that the weekly reaffirmation is hardly needed.

When cloning first became controversial, Denmark passed a law banning it immediately. Somewhat latter, it became apparent that cloning of cells, etc. was obviously a good idea, and the law was modified. Members of the official Ethics Advisory Board make statements about the need to improve the Quality of Life as opposed to increasing the Quantity of Life.

When I mentioned cryonic suspension to my MD, who is was willing to work with me on developing a drug regime for life extension, he said it wouldn't be long before a law was passed against cryonics, if it was attempted in Denmark. On the other hand, fetal cord blood is now routinely placed in low temperature suspension upon birth, in order to be available for cancer treatment.

The advantage of these countries over Russia, Japan, Korean, etc. would be primarily due to very low levels of corruption and a functioning legal system. However, the above argument could also be made.

Also, Switzerland and Netherlands have, I believe, practically decriminalized euthanasia.

The Northwestern European countries are all predominantly Christian, but there are significant differences in their responses to endoflife ethical questions. The European Values Study database could be analyzed in order to identify the best bet. However it might require a supplementary survey specifically on the question of cryonics to get specific results.

David S. Stodolsky

From: David Pizer

Someone asked "Which country is cryonics legal in?" Its legal in the United States!

There have been court cases in California where the judge ruled that death certificates have to be issued to cryonics patients and that cryonics could continue even though there is no "cryonics" box to check on death certificates. Thank you Judge Munoz.

In Scottsdale Arizona, the Mayor of the town welcomed Alcor's president when we moved here, invited President Bridge up to his office and had a nice conversation with him. The local hospitals and hospices treat Alcor in a professional manner. Things in that respect are not so bad for cryonics right now as the media might want people to think.

The real problem lies in the future when bioethic movement leaders try to outlaw cryonics. In the meantime they are trying to outlaw things that reanimation of cryonics patients will count on, like cloning human body parts.

We need to plan for the future. Moving from USA is not an option at present unless someone was willing to risk several million dollars for start up and continue to risk a slow growth for a decade.

Most cryonics members are citizens of the USA and don't want to be stored in a foreign country. That may change someday. It would be good for the movement for several groups to start up in different countries, but there is a lot of financial risk to that. Remember, those of us who helped start or develop the cryonics companies did so not as a good financial investment but because no one else wanted to do it.

I believe that there are ways to make a profit in the cryonics business but no one is doing it right now.

David

Charles Platt gives us some perspective

I see that Cryonet is going through one of its half baked phases. These always last longer than would seem possible.

Regarding the relocation of cryonics in some other nation (a halfbaked idea that has been raised periodically for more than a decademaybe more than two decadeswith no actual results whatsoever), I will take this fantasy a little more seriously if I see a minimum of 5 (five) cryonics activists actually making serious plans, supported by serious money, to move to any other nation and commence operations there. I will take it more seriously still if I see even 1 (one) possibly terminal patient express serious intentions to move to any nation that is considered more friendly to cryonics than the USA.

Bear in mind that historically, it has been difficult to persuade terminal patients to relocate near a cryonics facility *within* the USA (not impossible, not unprecedented, but difficult). People do not like to die thousands of miles from their home, family, and friends, and who can blame them?

Also one might consider that in Britain, where a substantial number of cryonics activists are located, there is still no fully equipped facility (no storage, for instance) and the capability that does exist was put together largely through the generosity and engineering skills of just one man (Alan Sinclair). I'm not belittling the help that Alan received, which was substantial. I'm just saying that without his capital and initiative, I doubt it would have happened.

Starting a cryonics organization is as tough as, or tougher than, starting any small business which requires substantial capital, skills, and labor. In fact, cryonics is unusually laborintensive, requires an exceptional range of skills, and of course never makes a profit. Relocating such an operation in a foreign country just multiplies the difficulties.

All of this, needless to say, should be INCREDIBLY OBVIOUS,and the pieinthesky theorizing about establishing cryonics in other countries is at best a doubtful use of one's time and at worst is actually deleterious to the provision of cryonics services in this country, since it distracts us from the hard problems and intense needs that we have here. I don't think it's coincidental that the wishful thinking has coincided with a time of exceptional challenges among US cryonics organizations.

How lamentable that instead of addressing these challenges there is an impractical yearning to get away from it all by going someplace else.

This reminds me of space enthusiasts who imagined that their social dysfunctionality could somehow be accommodated in L5 colonies.